Is it access to trained personnel?

Is it confusion over Treatment modalities?

What is preventing people from receiving care that solves their problems?
1) Is it access to trained personnel?
2) Is it too many within the profession claiming abilities and patients wind up bouncing around without resolution and grow weary?
3) Is it a lack of knowledge on the part of the public as to whether dentistry can even help?
4) Is it cost?
5) Is it confusion over Treatment modalities?
6) Other factors?
Post your concerns to express your ideas.

Discussion

Auro Suzuki
Is it confusion over Treatment modalities..

Micheal Keane
No 1 is biggest obstacle. Then the cost. If GNM was available in my country it would be possible even with the cost but having to fly to America 4 or 5 times for adjustments in the first year just adds to the cost. Add in i’m not good on planes makes it difficult. Never say never though all depends if my symptoms were to get worse

Laura Sa
Why flying to America? You can find a good doctor in Europe as well .

Micheal Keane
I know there are GNM dentists in Europe but I would be worried about the language barrier, are you talking about GNM dentists Laura Sa?

Laura Sa
Yes

Micheal Keane
Have you been treated by one in Europe?

Pete Robinson
Talk to the patients who have been treated by certain dentists. Maybe there is good dentists in Europe?!

Laura Sa
Micheal Keane check your Message..

Micheal Keane
Laura Sa I have no message in my inbox if that’s what you mean

Laura Sa
Micheal Keane maybe it went to the other folder

Micheal Keane
Pete Robinson I have seen one patient put up a very bad case of his experience of a GNM doctor in Russia, I know that’s just one case and one side of the story but I suppose if your going to pay out $10,000 + I would feel better going to America because I have read lots of success stories by patients who are being treated in America

Micheal Keane
Laura Sa no nothing? Can I add you as a friend if that’s ok and try the pm that way ?

Jean-Francois Vizier
Is there “access of carer to proper training” ? So then patients can have a chance to get “access to properly trained professionals”..

Amerie Cee
Cost for me. Almost 10 grand 😰😢

Rita Steele

1. Insurance doesn’t cover TMJ treatment in most cases. (Money)
2. Patients wind up bouncing around from Dr to Dr without resolution & grow weary.
3. Access to trained personnel if I could afford treatment.
4. Confusion over Treatment Modalities.
   
   Ann Barnett
   Ditto … plus each “bounce” that doesn’t work costs thousands of dollars. Fear of throwing good money after bad leaves patient in limbo and suffering 24-7.
   

Lee Jordan
Problem tends to be country dependant.
•British NHS deals with TMJ using opiates or crude Bruxism guards
•Patient then has three options, go overseas, live a life of pain, or take the opiates and develop a drug dependency
•If overseas is chosen treatment can be lengthy and expensive. Also some of those treatments are none reversible and can make the situation a lot worse. The individual will usually be a lower earner due to the condition so ruling out this option to the many.
If someone makes it out of this then it’s a rarity due to the above points.
That’s why I hold my fellow TMJ patients in the highest regard, as they battle through some unbelievable adversity.
All the very best,
Lee.

Jill Mitchell
Definitely money and access to proper doctors

Lisa Lombardo
The science will improve with the return of the patients experiences.
All the theories are made by scientists behind a desk. We live the illness, the treatments …. in fact in the history of the médecine it’s always like that patient return that the science can and will improve.
The cost is a big problem too. When the knowledge will come, the cost will be acceptable for all. Because when the technics are good, when the patients returns are good, all the professionals want to know and to do like that. Economy and business are my first jobs.
Translator no !! So please ( always ) excuse my English 🙏🌹

Bruce Wayne Greenstein
Patient feedback is CRITICAL! There are many scientist doctors who do the research and apply principles on patients with the proper interest and dedication to work through the medical/dental challenges. Together, commitment in both ends, progress is made.

Lisa Lombardo
Bruce Wayne Greenstein that what we want to do in our French association. Feedback for the research

Lee Jordan
Bruce Wayne Greenstein, this is with total respect to you, my current Doctor and some of the other physicians on here who do listen to patient feedback, are super humble and act on the findings. However, you guys and girls are in the minority! 99% of the many physicians I have seen over the last 5-6 years are either not interested in patient feedback, or tell you that it’s something else after listening to your feedback. I have been told I have obliterated discs, perfect occlusion, stressed, nothing wrong with me, CRPS, Fibromyalgia, Giant Cell Temporal Arthritis, the list goes on…….
You then spend more money to get tested for these things and low and behold you don’t have it and then said physician either goes quiet or tells you the testing is wrong! 🙂
You are right, together progress is made, however history proves ‘we never learn anything when we are talking, only when one listens’, and in my personal experience this is few and far between from Doctors in the TMJ field,
All the very best,
Lee,

Bruce Wayne Greenstein
I think the research piece by patients is CRITICAL as well. No different than when I need the right accountant or professional or technician…..even clergy (how there’s no lightning bolt nearby). It’s a combination of recommendations from others, online information, consulting with office and doctor, learning as much as you can on the topic and getting the feel from the person and place you seek care. How did the consult go? Does the proposal make sense, not just what does it cost? What’s considered the end game in therapy? It is indeed a challenge…..for me as well in areas where I lack familiarity too. Finding someone dedicated to you and willing to work with you for a fair fee is all anyone can ask for. Best to you,
Lee Jordan , as well!

Lee Jordan
Bruce Wayne Greenstein, once again with all due respect, it’s a lot different to you choosing the right accountant or electrician!
I’ll list the reasoning behind that:
•If you get an accountant who doesn’t quite get your VAT return right or a sparky who doesn’t wire one of your sockets you will have A: a higher tax return or B: your Hoover may need to be plugged into another rooms supply…..
Get it wrong in medicine and the patients life can be over. Now, a patient can research until the cows come home but at some point he or she will have to make a decision, which brings me onto my next point
•It is highly unlikely that you will have hundreds of accountants or electricians arguing in front of customers on a Facebook page about who’s way of working is better. However if you read the above replies you will see that ‘patient confusion’ is the biggest reply due to lack of agreement on treatment principles. I am a GNM patient, but I can find you positive research and comments and can find you negative ones from opposing Dr’s about GNM and many other treatments all on this page. So there comes a point where a patients research can only take them so far and they have to take a leap of faith.
I don’t think financial services and tradesmen should be classed as ‘no different’ to patient research.
All the very best,
Lee.

Lisa Lombardo
Excuse me if I have not well understood but I feel like something strange. I think really that the feedback can be THE solution of all.
Treatments will be improved, patients will get better, then research can have the proof that professionals needs money to treat people who suffers, because it is a big deal and a great thing to all. A sort of win to win deal. Professionals have technics and knowledges that will be payed by government and patients will have good treatments.
Our association want that TMJD be reconized as a real pathology by the WHO and I will try to make this demand to all the others associations in the world. Hand in hand to make that demand, you know, people have got a power. And we can help. Because if one day, some of you, or your parents or child’s will have a TMJD, my hope is “the things have to change” and I’m not alone. So I pray ( and hope ) to be not alone.

Bruce Wayne Greenstein
Lee Jordan, I am sure you understand that my comments are about doing as much investigation as you can before making a choice. I am not attempting to compare life or death situations in medicine to fixing an outlet or filling out tax returns. What I am suggesting is that as much information as possible be gathered for such an important decision. I think the post speaks to that point well enough.
My experience from speaking with many patients is am almost blind trust in their doctor’s recommendation. I can tell you that I’ve spent 28 years in this profession and first started practicing based on similar blind trust in what dental school teaches. When you see certain therapies not go according to plan, you question the methods and search for better information and better solutions. It’s so terribly disconcerting in my own profession to find out about behind the scenes politics and allegiances that influence research, material choices or methods of treatment. I can thoroughly empathize with the folks on this Forum who are hurting. When you run across someone whose only angle is to help, to be guided by truth and facts and works hard on your behalf, in whatever endeavor, then my hope is that your research, your pursuit, has put you in the right place to obtain the help you need. I do not know your own personal path, but am confident that you have found a dedicated practitioner to assist you.

Lisa Lombardo
Bruce Wayne Greenstein 💕👍

Lee Jordan
Bruce Wayne Greenstein, I hear you. My point is research will only take you so far. You are limited then by so many other factors that include distance, cost and all the other things that Clayton has listed and asked people to comment on.
Blind faith is understandable when a person might have uncontrollable levels of pain, it’s human nature to trust ones Doctor, the very thought of the treatment or the physician not being in your best interests is truly alien, well at least until one has been around the block with treatments. That is proven by the thousands on here who have had treatment that has made them worse. Unless you are lucky geographically or wealthy you are almost destined to have somebody make you worse.
Now, my real, deep research came once I was in a really bad way, as traditional medicine was failing me. Ask anyone when they learn about far off alternatives and it will always be when they are at rock bottom, as until then they will be trying to respect their treatment and have faith in their Doctor, it’s human nature. I am lucky, I got to help and my research paid off, but the very emotive nature of this post and the many replies show that many people are not getting the help they need.
Things need to change so that a TMJ patient is not destined to get worse the second they enter treatment, and if you live in my country once they have finished telling you it’s all in your head and make you a crude splint or put you on Opiates, that is exactly what will happen to you, things will get a whole lot worse.
All the very best,
Lee.